Other Guidelines

The underlined text is link to the forum discussion that was majority approved. I just don't know if I got the gist and wording right.

RSG §2.1.7
B) An alias is created when changing and/or abandoning the PAN surname or identity.
D) Replace June Carter Cash with: Capitalization Musical Keys
RSG §1.2.2. Exceptions:
1.2.2. F (new) Musical keys can be entered as they appear on the release when capitalization is used to differentiate between minor and major keys.

UK & Europe vs Europe
7.1.4. (new) If a release is distributed in Europe, AND the release explicitly calls out the UK as a region (for example, "Distributed in Europe and the UK by etc etc"), then and only then use the "UK and Europe" tag.

Worldwide
7.1.5. (new) The country option “Worldwide” should be used when specifically marketed as Worldwide and/or available for release around the world. This is primarily concerning post 2010 releases and/or file releases.

An XYZ Production
10.2.7.3. (new) Companies listed as “An XYZ Production” can be given a “Record Company” role.

URL /= separate brand
4.3.7. (new) URL/domain name does not always equal a separate company name. It can be considered equivalent to an 'ANV' of the company. The chosen company name should be the one most often used on releases.
Exceptions:
1. The domain name differs too much from the company name to be a variation.
2. The name and the URL are distinct entities, different locations or different processes.

RSG §6.12.2. Promo
Any item labelled as being issued to promote a retail release. Change first sentence to remove "Advance"

BAOI data & descriptions
RSG §5.2.c. Change grey area to:
A release may have minor differences in the runout string that does not qualify for a unique submission. This information may be added to the release page that best matches it as variant data. When entering this information into the BaOI section, please add the full set of data as a cluster, including redundant data (i.e., all sides).

If a cluster of BaOI data already exists, it will need to have '(Variant 1)' appended to the end of the free text field description and the new data entered as '(Variant 2)'. Additional data clusters will need to be sequentially numbered, and cannot be changed, once added.

Free-Text-Field descriptions should be uniform between variants. The descriptor format set by the original submitter should be followed if it is adequate enough to describe the location of the data.

Incomplete or incorrectly added BaOI data can be removed after a period of 14 days if the contributor is not able to or correct the variant data added. Existing subsequent data clusters should not be renumbered to backfill vacated numbers. Those numbers can be backfilled by new entries, though.

Example: Watching The Wheels
Example: ______________

See Credits List
... A) If an Artist name is printed on the release and is not the main artist or tied to a specific credit role use a generic role (Performer, Instruments, Accompanied By). Example: Loving You Vol.1
... B) If an Artist name is printed on the release and no information can be found for the role, use unlinked "Other". Example: Live Drugs Again
... C) Main artist(s) and track artist(s) should only be given a “credit” if it is explicitly printed on the release. Example: Blues Changes
... D) For classical releases it is acceptable to give a composer credit even if not explicitly printed.
... E) Multiple credits can be chosen for a single artist. (for example: Written-By, Vocals, Guitar, Keyboards).

Christmas (Baby, Please Come Home) / Harry And Milt Meet Hal B.

https://discogs.futbolgratis.org/forum/thread/1120413
Unknown if musical, staff, friends ........ Use "Other" - non linked, unknown role.

TopCats45s
RSG §2.1.7
B) An alias is created when changing or abandoning the PAN surname or identity.
D) Replace June Carter Cash with: The Jackson Five = The Jacksons

Just one minor point: replace The Jackson Five with The Jackson 5.

TopCats45s
Free Text Field
RSG §6.1.7. It is beneficial that the most important distinguishing feature be noted on releases that appear identical in the master release. For instance, the label color, vinyl color, pressing plant. Editions with multiple vinyl colors: If available use the marketing description for that release, otherwise describe the color as best you can with the color group first (i.e., Blue transparent)

I would advocate being as clear as possible here. Could we provide a couple examples of preferred format, and maybe even a list of sanctioned abbreviations?

TopCats45s
Capitalization Musical Keys
RSG §1.2.2. Exceptions:
1.2.2. F (new) Musical keys can be entered as they appear on the release when capitalization is used to differentiate between minor and major keys.

I 100% agree with this!

TopCats45s
UK & Europe vs Europe
7.1.4. (new) If a release is distributed in Europe, AND the release explicitly calls out the UK as a region (for example, "Distributed in Europe and the UK by etc etc"), then and only then use the "UK and Europe" tag.

Worldwide
7.1.5. (new) The country option “Worldwide” should only be used when specifically marketed as worldwide and/or available for release around the world. This is primarily concerning post 2010 releases and/or file releases.

Yes, absolutely.

TopCats45s
An XYZ Production
10.2.7.3. (new) Companies listed as “An XYZ Production” can be given a “Record Company” role.

Why would or wouldn't Produced For work? I would like to better understand this. I think we're overdue is well for a final ruling on what to do with logos that don't have obvious roles. Should those be labels or record companies? As an example, see Boston Symphony Orchestra, Serge Koussevitzky - Cowell*, Hanson*, Mozart*, Shostakovich*, Strauss*, Tchaikovsky* - Salute To Symphony 1989 (The Boston Symphony Orchestra In Historic Performances Conducted By Serge Koussevitzky)

TopCats45s
Free Text Field
RSG §6.1.7. It is beneficial that the most important distinguishing feature be noted on releases that appear identical in the master release. For instance, the label color, vinyl color, pressing plant. Editions with multiple vinyl colors: If available use the marketing description for that release, otherwise describe the color as best you can with the color group first (i.e., Blue transparent)

For what it's worth, if we do ever get the long-desired Packaging field(s), color should be part of that, which would help reduce the clogging up of the FTF.

Cousin_Mosquito
Why would or wouldn't Produced For work?

You'd have to read all the threads. There are many. Type in "An XYZ Production". Apparently, sometimes that does not mean Producer or Produced For. Of course, sometimes it does ...... But?

Logos? I don't have the expertise for that one. And so far every single forum discussion says if the logo represents a label - then it's a label. If it's just artwork or a TM, ignore/notes.

Format examples - yeah for sure. I love examples - just seem to always draw a blank when I go looking, LOL.

Cousin_Mosquito
I think we're overdue is well for a final ruling on what to do with logos that don't have obvious roles.

I would think that would just be an artist "trademark" on that BSO example. Forum discussion needed. There are others. Can't all off hand, but (Please Don't) Talk Behind My Back.

TopCats45s
An XYZ Production
10.2.7.3. (new) Companies listed as “An XYZ Production” can be given a “Record Company” role.

A very recent discussion here that established different scenarios:
https://discogs.futbolgratis.org/forum/thread/1083398?page=1&message_id=11220604#11199713
Perhaps a bit too convoluted for a guideline update but the broad understanding here is that "An XYZ Production" is generally to to be considered not a company name. "XYZ" is the focal entity in that statement.

Separately, ideally a Production Company (or in the least "Other") role could be added to RSG §4.6.2. to capture such anomalies.

TopCats45s
Price Codes
RSG §5.2.g. Price Code is an identifier assigned to determine the price of an audio carrier. Price codes can appear in various kinds, e.g. two letters and three digits (BA100, PM 500), circled letters (Ⓐ or Ⓦ), as "series" (Serie Azul, Série Artistique), 1 or 2 letters (M, AC), 2 or more digits, often after a dash (-213, 0812), etc. This can also be the MSRP (Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price) printed on the release.

U.S./Canada releases often printed a four-digit code on the spine (0698 or X698) - perhaps add as an example too?

For consideration:
Price Code is an identifier assigned to determine the price of an audio carrier. Price codes can appear in various kinds forms, e.g., two letters and three digits (BA100, PM 500), circled letters (Ⓐ or Ⓦ), as "series" (Serie Azul, Série Artistique), as a classification (DELUXE), one or two letters (M, AC), two or more digits, often after a dash (-213, 0812), in a value form (0698, 0898), etc. This can also be the MSRP (Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price) printed on the release (e.g., $4.98, ¥10,000).

TopCats45s
Free-Text-Field descriptions should be uniform between versions. The descriptor format set by the original submitter should be followed if it is adequate enough to describe the location of the data.

Considering this went over 26 pages:
https://discogs.futbolgratis.org/forum/thread/910405
Without consensus, I would be afraid of trying to enshrine this!

I'm still of the belief that a functional change to the BaOI dropdowns to give dedicated fields for the very distinct types of matrix data could do away with a lot of the temptation for preference edits here:
https://discogs.futbolgratis.org/forum/thread/910405?page=24#9883268

TopCats45s
uniform between versions.

What is being termed a "version" here? The guidelines generally define "version" as a unique release:
RSG §1.4.1.
RSG §1.5.1.
https://.discogs.futbolgratis.org/hc/en-us/articles/11311682608909-How-To-Add-A-Unique-Version-To-A-Master-Release
etc.

A "version" of a runout variant is generally considered to be termed a "variant," not a "version."
Though of course that gets met with disagreement too.

TopCats45s
If a cluster of BaOI data already exists, it will need to have '(Variant 1)' appended to the end of the free text field description and the new data entered as '(Variant 2)'. Additional data clusters will need to be sequentially numbered, and cannot be changed, once added.

As was stated by staff:
https://discogs.futbolgratis.org/forum/thread/741352?message_id=7562427#7584677
Though ideally we can follow RSG §1.2.1. here, as well as provide an example.

When adding runout variants to a release, please name original set as "variant 1" and the new set as "variant 2"; e.g.:

Side A runout, variant 1
Side B runout, variant 1
Side A runout, variant 2
Side B runout, variant 2

TopCats45s
please add the full set of data as a cluster, including redundant data.

Obviously BaOI takes more than vinyl data, but this often manifests with two-sided media, where a states that if one side is the same as another, they can just add the "unique" side. So I wonder if this statement can somehow specify here without getting too in the weeds?

When entering runout-derived data into the BaOI section, please add the full set of data for the release as a cluster, including redundant data (i.e., all sides).

or

When entering runout-derived data into the BaOI section, please add the full set of data for the release. For double-sided media, please enter all runout data for the release as a cluster, even if some sides are the same as a different variant entry.

j_lit
Perhaps a bit too convoluted for a guideline update

Reading that thread made my head hurt, LOL. I think I understand where you are coming from. If there are 100's of releases that literally state "An XYZ Production" I think that needs to be taken into consideration. After all - "as on release" is pretty big around here. The conclusion of that thread was still to use "record co" untill/unless DTF can add an "Other". Right? So it's just the name of that company that you question. And that would be case by case if I read your thread right?

j_lit
For consideration

I await other s comments on that - price codes are way out of my field of expertise.

j_lit
Free-Text-Field descriptions

Will change the word version to variant. All the rest is almost copy/paste from DTF's post.

PS The underlined text (for instance BAOI data & descriptions) is the link to the forum discussion I read when putting this together (except the first one).

Forum Thread #1123239 is a current consensus on Free Text Field, to use marketing description.

Fixed Artist Credits & Credit Roles and Price codes as suggested.

j_lit
provide an example

Anyone have an example handy for a CD or multi record release?
I'm adding a good one for a single.

j_lit provide an example

Anyone have an example handy for a CD or multi record release?
I'm adding a good one for a single.

Sure, but sorry, what RSG component was this in reference to?

TopCats45s
Forum Thread #1123239 is a current consensus on Free Text Field, to use marketing description.

Probably more of https://discogs.futbolgratis.org/forum/thread/1002734

But if 6.1. is GOING to get modified, perhaps it's time to formalize the long established:
Manufacturers can be in the free text field (via the former Undocumented wiki), if it's not opening a can of worms?

(Unlike this, which was a can of worms: Guideline change proposal – Format (gatefold-type packaging)

j_lit
what RSG component

BAOI data & descriptions

I've got lots of pet peeves too! The reason for the guideline update on the FTF was to address the fact that we have more than 3 characters showing - but the RSG says only 3. So, don't have consider display of Blu, Ora, etc. That's an "easy" fix compared to making a list of acceptable "significant differentiating factor between releases". That could run pages long! I wouldn't even know where to start. I really really don't want to go down that rabbit hole.

TopCats45s
otherwise describe the color as best you can with the color group first (i.e., Blue transparent)

Is there a good reason why the color group should still be listed first?

I would also like to see the bracket option kept & noted in the guidelines - fine with Marketing Description [Actual Color(s)] - for cases when the marketing description does not describe the color well. But this probably also depends on the end result of the thread.

TopCats45s
10.7.1. An Artist not credited on the release can only be added under certain circumstances. The (credible) source must be stated in the Submission Notes, and the credit must be labeled with [Uncredited] in brackets after the credit role. If other text is used in the credit brackets, the 'Uncredited' must have a comma separating it from the other text. Example: Christmas (Baby, Please Come Home) / Harry And Milt Meet Hal B.

This is maybe slightly unrelated, but is it anywhere in the guidelines whether or not ANVs should be used for [Uncredited] credits?

At first glance, everything else seems okay... I might have some thoughts on the Worldwide part, but I need to see if I can finally finish reading the thread.

auboisdormant
also depends on the end result of the thread

Yeah, I see it's still on-going and Diognes_The_Fox has added "I don't want to have to open a dozen different tabs to figure out what Magical Unicorn even means. The goal of Color [Marketing Term] is to make identification easier." So, we'll see how it plays out I guess.
Color [Marketing] = Blue [Cloudy Skies]
Color no marketing = Blue Transparent
Marketing includes color = Cloudy Blue Skies

auboisdormant
thoughts on the Worldwide part

Yeah, that one is difficult and I know I don't have it written correct. It does need to be addressed though. I'm waiting for Opdiner to in too as he's quite familiar with worldwide "stuff".

auboisdormant
anywhere in the guidelines whether or not ANVs should be used for [Uncredited] credits?

If it's not credited (in print) ... there would be no need for an ANV would there?